there were signs all around my uni that said “dump your socialist boyfriend” for like NO reason 😭😭
Never, ever try and engage these people on their terms, for example, by trying to “challenge” them with counter arguments. They already have a whole script of replies ready for anything like that, designed to drag you down to his level of bad-faith bickering.
Instead, simply call out to their face what they actually are. These are bad-faith actors there for the sole purpose of undermining social cohesion by creating a false dichotomy between science and religion. They are not the only reason we are so divided but they are a large one. Tell them that. Don’t let them respond. Don’t give them questions to answer. Just keep pressing, stating what they are, to them, and to everyone who’s stopping to listen. Humiliate them by presenting them to the public as the cancer to society that they are.
This is pretty much prime territory for the same methods Kirk used for “debate”.
Gish gallop, butwhatabout, moving goalposts, exhausting the opponent with bs, etc.
They’re all the same, they’re not there for any honest conversation. There is absolutely no way to “win” with them because no matter what objective and truthful information you offer it will be rejected or you’ll be asked to “prove” something that cannot be done in any manner acceptable to the asker.
creating a false dichotomy between science and religion
Was with you until this part. There’s nothing false about that dichotomy.
Plenty of religious scientists. The more you learn, the greater you are aware of how much is uncertain. You can still believe in a God whilst respecting the scientific method of iterative reasoning and refinement
The more you learn, the greater you are aware of how much is uncertain.
Yes, but similarly, the god of the gaps is pretty hard to ignore.
There will be questions we never will have the answer to, and if you’re actually serious about the scientific method as a philosophy, you aren’t uncomfortable with “we don’t know”.
To me, a mysterious universe is more wondrous than “god did it” and yes, I do very much question religious scientists, despite many great scientists being religious.
If you’re willing to just believe things “just because” then how can I trust you’ll actually apply the scientific method (also a philosophy) reliably?
I can happily coexist and work with mildly religious scientists/engineers, but I would straight up refuse to work with a creationist or someone born again. Religion is anti-scientific.
Religion vs science is not a false dichotomy, despite it being possible to be religious and a scientist at the same time.
It’s less accepting the uncertainties, and more seeing familiar patterns and constants and wondering of their nature. Why Pi, why 3 visible human dimensions, why the golden ratio in so many flora and fauna, why quark trios.
The scientific answer to many of these is “Nature of the universe, energy minimization dictates, we have Math models”, all which are fine answers. But you do still question why those values/patterns compared to others, and the truth is we may never know. If we do, that’s amazing(!), but if not, that’s probably alright too.
The scientific method answers “How?” questions. It lets us build models of reality - a map of the territory.
“Why?” questions imply intent- requiring an intelligence making a decision. The scientific method does not and cannot answer those questions.
That’s why it’s fun to ponder them
