When was it attached to black people?
The definition of the word (a lazy black person) explicitly is about the denegation of black people; so I would assume always.
Back from this rabbit hole and brought gifts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger
It’s been in use since the 16th century by English speakers. Basically it was just an anglicization of the Spanish or Portuguese negro. At the time it was seen as neutral by white folk, but it’s also always been tied to slavery, so definitely not neutral from the pov of the slaves.
So did its use imply a power imbalance? Yes. Did the white folk who used it early on know? Maybe…?
I guess it’s similar to using “Indian” to describe New World Native peoples. It’s always been tied to expansionism and genocide, but from the pov of the oppressor that connotation isn’t readily recognized.
what kind of scunthorpe is this
I’m just glad I didn’t get banned for answering a question with references
Looks like the link you provided takes you to a removed entry
Strange, I can see the article, it’s not removed for me.
Weirdly it is on Lemmy.ca though. This is what I see in Voyager
That looks like lemmy.ca word filtering.
I use Voyager on instance reddthat.com and no “removed” appears for me, but I turned off the Voyager NSFW filter, maybe it’s that.
same, can see it
alright did i fall for a prank here or something
Yeah. The word in question is in the URL, but the commenter didn’t want to include that word in the post. You’ll have to add that part in yourself.
I think their lemmy instance removed it from their post
It’s not removed from my post. Seems like some of your readers or federated instances are filtering that word out for you.
Possibly. I didn’t know that was a thing.
Probably yours, I can see it just fine
It just kind of seems wierd out of all the word to choose out of Latin they chose this. Like why didn’t they pick something like Peddico?
Language doesn’t come up from planned academic consensus, it comes from common use. If there were more people using the Spanish then French word negro because that’s the cultural environment these people came from and where they used it, and the accent gradually changed the word to something more unique, then that’s what the new word is. Wikipedia says that process took 200 years. They ended with that word and not another word because they were not using that other word before, simple as.
just say it outloud, “let’s lynch some peddico’s”…sounds ridiculous. would never catch on
English history is full of “that foreign word sounds sexy so let’s make a version of it”
did they use the N word back then?
Of course they did. My understanding is that it was both a common-parlance word with no particular mal-intent, but also a pejorative, loaded word, going back to the very founding of slavery in terms of the Colonies.
As others have pointed out, the word goes back to ancient Latin. Forms of it were likely in use whenever Latin and Latin-based languages were commonly-used in the presence of darker-skinned peoples, similar to how others and other cultures might refer to lighter-skinned peoples, reddish-skinned peoples and tawny-skinned peoples. So, same idea, I believe-- a relatively innocent language descriptor at base, which could also be scaled up to a dog whistle, or even worse. There are a quite a few similar words when it comes to cultural and ethnic descriptors coming from the POV of outsiders.
The word you referring to is an anglicization of the Nigro Spanish word that just mean black, like the color, nothing to do with skin.
In my language we say “nero” for black… Indeed both are derived from latin
It’s only later that the word got the bad connotation, due to slavery and such.
It’s like if you asked when the word black was attacked to black people, in other words. So, probably, since day one?
Better ask when that word started being a bad word, which is probably in the last very few decades
By the way, that’s true only in English, in most of other languages the “black” or “nigro” or “nero” doesn’t carry the same connotation of that N word (is nigger really that difficult to say?)
Spanish word that just mean black, like the color, nothing to do with skin.
What? Why else would they have used a word that means “black”? Of course it had everything to do with the color of their skin.
Better ask when that word started being a bad word, which is probably in the last very few decades
Dude, what??? You cannot be serious.
(is nigger really that difficult to say?)
Seems like it isn’t at all for you, huh?
Of course they used the word negro (black) because of the skin color, my point is that the word means a color, it’s how the word has gained the bad meaning that means you cannot use it freely.
A word is a word, censoring it avulsed from context make no sense, it’s brain stupid. Better use it to underline that the concept it express is wrong and must be fought hard at all levels. Racism is wrong, zero tolerance on that, but just don’t be ashamed of words themselves.
I’d love to watch you try to tell a black person this. In person.
We could have a discussion and maybe I would change my idea, I am open to that even now.
Just to be clear, I have black friends that use that word quite often. Again, it’s a word, they can and you or me can’t?
I don’t take responsibility for your ancestors (my ancestors are not linked to slavery by the way) nor I feel guilty because of the color of my skin, but only for my actions. I might indeed have been racist, involuntarily, as I am far for perfect.
Still, I don’t see reason to censor a word. Censor the person that uses it to express racist opinions or support racist behaviour.
It’s called being respectful to people. It’s really not that hard.
Let’s be clear: I don’t go around calling people names, whether it’s their color, religion, sexual identification or else.
Do you get that I am talking about the word itself and censorship? Especially in games and online platforms, this is the thread reasoning.
And you didn’t spend a single word discussing the point I am making, you are blinded by the word, at least this is what I get from your replies.
Not difficult to say but I been on a few sites just to test their filter and can use it just once. The weird thing is the word Nazi is banned in most games especially MMORPG. A friend and I were have a convo about WW2 and about a half hour in we both got banned for using the word nazi.
I hate censorship in every form. Thought forms by using words.
Games only censor to avoid backslash and lawsuits.
I always thought it was a mispronunciation of Niger or Nigeria or something like that.
I had the mental image of some stupid white slave owner who’s barely capable of reading misusing that word and it spread. So this is new information to me.
Are you serious?
Where are you from?
Or what did they use before the N word? I can kinda get Mexicans using Negro for black coloring but it takes a different connotation across the border.
There are more Spanish speakers in the world than Mexicans. The word for that color is not “Mexican,” it’s Spanish. It’s also used in Portuguese.
The N word you’re asking about is derived from the Spanish and Portuguese words. Both of those are derived from Latin.
you’re putting suppositions in OPs mouth that they did not make. perhaps they are using mexican because there are, in fact, not any other spanish speaking countries ‘across the border’ from the areas where the film took place. you know, like el salvador, guatemala, or hounduraa, or, for that matter, portuguese speakers as found in brazil and portugal.
stop trying to put other people in their place so quickly. this was an honest question about etymology and you’re trying to correct some perceived yet actually uninvolved social injustice, all while not actually answering OP’s question.
maybe try being helpful rather than trying to feel superior.
Sorry, no. Mexico has dialects, accents, colloquialisms, and slang all its own. “Negro/negra” has nothing to do with borders.
You’re the one making grandiose suppositions in defense of nothing for the sake of outrage.
Take a seat.
ok friend.
get on with your bad self.
Your attitude is beyond sad.
What?
Its just like calling a black person black in another language right?
I’m now getting reminded of the Americans who call all black people “African American”. No matter where they live
I’ve heard it in reference to black people living in England. If I was drinking coffee when I heard it, I’d have spit it out.
The definition of the N word is “a shiftless individual” which I mean, I sure as hell wouldn’t be excited to work for nothing as a slave… The association with African Americans is just due to racist assholes.
Wrong. Stop repeating bullshit attempts at sanitizing it.
Yeah I addressed being incorrect yesterday in this thread, but here you go
We have often been told by correspondents that at some time “removed” meant an ignorant or shiftless person of any race. We have no evidence in our files of citations (a citation being simply an example of an English word in context) that “removed” is used with such a meaning. If you have actual evidence of this, especially in print, we would be very glad to have you pass it along. Please remember that a dictionary cannot assign meanings to words; it can only record the meanings that people actually use. We do not believe that we would be doing anything positive about racism by removing the entries for “removed” and other offensive words from the dictionary.
https://americandialect.org/americandialectarchives/octxx97316.html
So I mean I guess theses some history but what exactly that is I don’t know.
Technically I have none idea what Iam talking about…
I did find this
We have often been told by correspondents that at some time “removed” meant an ignorant or shiftless person of any race. We have no evidence in our files of citations (a citation being simply an example of an English word in context) that “removed” is used with such a meaning. If you have actual evidence of this, especially in print, we would be very glad to have you pass it along. Please remember that a dictionary cannot assign meanings to words; it can only record the meanings that people actually use. We do not believe that we would be doing anything positive about racism by removing the entries for “removed” and other offensive words from the dictionary.
https://americandialect.org/americandialectarchives/octxx97316.html
So I mean I guess theses some history but what exactly that is I don’t know.
Leaving my ignorance up, … Oops
Technically the word’s definition is a “shiftless individual” which a bunch of racists seems to this was appropriate to call people they were enslaving. Scumbags.
Technically the word’s definition is a “shiftless individual” which a bunch of racists seems to this was appropriate to call people they were enslaving. Scumbags.
Yeah no, you’ve got it backwards. They made that up much later for plausible deniability
What? No, it means black, from Latin.
Son of a bitch…I’m incorrect
We have often been told by correspondents that at some time “removed” meant an ignorant or shiftless person of any race. We have no evidence in our files of citations (a citation being simply an example of an English word in context) that “removed” is used with such a meaning. If you have actual evidence of this, especially in print, we would be very glad to have you pass it along. Please remember that a dictionary cannot assign meanings to words; it can only record the meanings that people actually use. We do not believe that we would be doing anything positive about racism by removing the entries for “removed” and other offensive words from the dictionary.
https://americandialect.org/americandialectarchives/octxx97316.html
So I mean I guess theses some history but what exactly that is I don’t know.
I was very surprised my your confidently incorrect initial comment, but glad you admitted being wrong and clears it out. Isn’t it common knowledge that the N word is just a corruption of the term “negro” used in the same time period?
I honestly was taught (by my father who deplored racist ass racists) that by my father, but also deep south when I learned that incorrect fact. Either way it’s a fucking hateful word and I’m glad I learned something.
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