The link is just a context to start a light hearted discussion on what is Europe’s expectations from lndia in particular, and from Asia in general !
The link is just a context to start a light hearted discussion on what is Europe’s expectations from lndia in particular, and from Asia in general !
I don’t have any expectations, I am not educated enough about politics of asian countries in general.
However, adhering to the example of India you brought up, I hope the mentioned talks indicate a shift away from the close ties to Russia.
Generally I hope and wish for progress in demokratisation and stronger cooperation of democratic countries, but that a global wish of mine and not specific to Asia or India.
Modi had visited Europe primarily regarding trade and investment.
Russia is also a European country.
So how does it make a difference if lndia enjoys friendly relationship with Russia ?
I was using “European” before. That might have been prone to misunderstanding. The adjective for “EU” is “European” for better or worse. There is no “EUian” and I have never heard “EU European” used before.
The problem, almost everyone in Europe has with Russia (no matter if you consider Russia as proper European or a Eurasian border case) is that it has launched the bloodiest war in Europe since WW2, invading a neighbouring country, trying to annex it (partially successfully), then engaging in ethnic cleansing and systematic kidnapping of children for Russian reeducation. But it doesn’t stop there, Russia is threatening to do the same with other countries too, among them EU member states.
It should be easy to see why the EU and its member states, would be happy to see if India were to re-evaluate its relations with Russia. That said, this is India’s choice to make, not ours. Also, I think economic relations are seen as a separate topic from that.
I didn’t use Europe as a qualifier for anything. The problem with friendly relationships to Russia is that Russia is an autocratic regime supressing minorities and citizens disagreeing with the government and currently conducts a war of aggression against its neighbour with a complimentary genocide. I don’t like people who can be friends with such.
And inb4 “bUt AmErIcA”: yep, trying to maintain or build friendship with the US is similarly dislikable. Or with China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Israel, etc.
And inb4 again: no, there is no country doing perfect, european or on other continents. But there are some doing better than others and I wish for improvement and democratisation. I doubt that can happen though when you’re friends with the worst countries though.
What you described about Russia holds true for lndia as well.
Everything? And on the same level?
Well, at least regarding suppression of minorities and people disagreeing with government holds true.
How would you evaluate the chances of India improving in those areas by the influence from countries doing better in that area?
Could you be more specific about influence from other countries ??
Hardly, because I fear that as soon as I state specific countries someone would come in with “but here is all the wrongdoings of said country” and I’d rather focus on positives, progression and concepts.
But let’s say roughly EU countries because that is this community’s focus and while EU countries are far from spotless records and the member states are incredibly diverse in policies, to my knowledge the EU is still one of if not the most progressive region on earth concerning individual freedoms, civil rights, workers’ rights, freedom of press et cetera.
Although this community is named Europe, it has the EU flag as image so people assume that’s what others mean.
In any case, given the current political climate with the Ukrainian war, it would be hard to hold a friendly relationship with both fronts I guess.
Also, even if India were as autocratic as you say (I’m not denying it), they are not in an active war with a friend of most European countries, so it hits different for most other europeans.
It is the Flag of Europe, which is used by the EU, but was actually designed and is still used by the Council of Europe. Currently all countries in Europe, but Russia and Belarus are members of that council.
Is Belarus not a member of EU ?
No it is a Russian vassal.
Is Suisse a part of the EU ?
@MastKalandar @fushuan
No but it has cooperative agreements & protocols with the EU.
My question is, bigger countries are part of the EU. Many former USSR republics have joined the EU. Even Turkey has applied to join the EU, but not Suisse.
What holds back this tiny state from becoming a full fledged member of the EU ?
Switzerland managed to get an a la carte deal with the EU. It is in fact highly integrated witv the EU with no say in EU institutions but some big privileges/ opt outs. This has historical reasons any and EU would not accept such a deal again.
@MastKalandar
Nothing. They are traditionally non-aligned (for ~1000 years) & reckon that that has worked well for them to date. the working relationship suits them & the EU.
A bit like what holds Monaco back from joining France?🤷
Exactly 💯. Switzerland and Monaco are tiny European nations who are powerful enough to maintain their independence.
Was Monaco a part of Napoleon’s kingdom ?
Do you know about Russia’s past ties with Ukraine ?
Yes, Russia starved Ukraine in 1933
Holodomor
That is one of the (many) reasons they are resisting.
Thanks for sharing that article. It wasn’t Russia but the USSR. You might even say Stalin. Interestingly, it was the time of the Great Depression, which was happening worldwide, and which consolidated fascism in Europe.
During those days, famines were common in lndia as well, which was subject to the British Empire.
While there was The Great Depression, it did not impact the USSR. Holodomor was a planned genocide.
But you made a valid point. Artificial shortages whether it be food, fuel or money are engineered by those in power.
1/3 European.
The EU is not a state, not even anything close to the USSR. That being said the EU is actually a model for the world order, and after 2030, the entire world would turn into one giant EU.
This is the reason why Modi had visited the EU or the the EU is keen to have trade relations with India, despite most of the EU citizens not approving the idea.
I strongly doubt the world as a whole is moving towards a global supranational order. The opposite appears to be the case. Rule based international relations are on the retreat in favour of purely transactional power dynamics.
On regional levels there is more going in that direction. There is some supeanational consolidation going on in Africa, to a more limited extend in Southern America and even to a more limited extend in South East Asia. All of those examples are much loser than the EU.
PS: I doubt many EU citizen are against a trade deal with India, largely because they have never even thought about it. Opposition largely depends on what is actually in the package.