• litchralee@sh.itjust.works
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    8 hours ago

    Other commenters correctly describe the cost analysis for using evaporative cooling, but I’ll add one more reason why it’s the preferred method when water is available: evaporating water can dissipate truly outlandish amounts of heat with very few moving parts.

    Harkening back to high school physics class, water – like all other substances – has a certain thermal capacity, meaning the energy needed to increase the temperature of 1 kg of water by 1 degree C. The specific thermal capacity of water is already quite high, at 4184 J/(kg*C), besting all the common metals and only losing to lithium, hydrogen, and ammonia. In nature, this means that large bodies of water are natural moderators of temperature, because water can absorb an entire day’s worth of sunlight energy but not substantially change the water temperature.

    But where water really trounces the competition is its “heat of vaporization”. This is the extra energy needed for liquid water to become vapor; simply bringing water to 100 C is not sufficient to make it airborne. Water has a value of 2146 kJ/kg. Simplifying to where 1 kg of water is 1 liter of water, we can convert this unit into something more familiar: 0.596 kWh/L.

    What these two physical properties of water tell us is that if our city water comes out of the pipe at 20 C, then to get it to 100 C to boil, we need the difference (80) times the thermal capacity (4184 J/kg*C), which is 334,720 J/kg . Using the same simplification from earlier, that comes out to be 0.093 kWh/L. And then to actual make the boiling liquid become a vapor (so that it’ll float away), we then need 0.596 kWh/L on top of that.

    Let that sink in for a moment: the energy to turn water into vapor (0.596 kWh/L) is six times higher than the energy (0.093 kWh/L) to raise liquid water from 20 C to 100 C. That’s truly incredible, for a non-toxic, life-compatible substance that we can (but should we?) safely dump into the environment. If you total the two values, one liter of water can dissipate 0.69 kWh of energy per liter. Nice!

    In the context of a 100 megawatt data center (which apparently is what the industry considers as the smallest “hyperscale data center”), if that facility used only evaporative cooling, the water requirement would be 144,927 L/hour. That is an Olympic-size swimming pool every 6.9 seconds. Not nice!

    And AI datacenters are only getting larger, with some reaching into the low single-digits of gigawatts. But what is the alternative to cooling the more-modest data center from earlier? The reality is that the universe only provides for three forms of heat transfer: conduction, convection, and radiation. The heat from data centers cannot be concentrated into a laser and radiated into space, and we don’t have some sort of underground granite mountain that the data centers can conduct their heat into. Convection is precisely the idea of storing the heat into a substance (eg water, air) and then jettisoning the substance.

    So if we don’t want to use water, then we have to use air. But for the two qualities of water that make it an excellent substance for evaporative cooling, air doesn’t come close – 1003 J/(kg*C) and no heat of vaporization, because air is already gaseous. That means we need to move ungodly amounts of air to dissipate 100 megawatts. But humanity has already invented the means to do this, by a clever structure that naturally encourages air to flow through it.

    The only caveat is that the clever structure is a cooling tower, and is characteristic of nuclear power stations. It’s also used for non-nuclear power station cooling, but it’s most famous in the nuclear context, where generators are well into the gigawatt range. Should AI datacenters use nuclear-sized air cooling towers instead of water evaporation? It would work, but even as someone that’s not anti-nuclear, the optics of raising a cooling tower in rural America just to cool a datacenter would be untenable. And that’s probably why no AI datacenter has done that.

    To be abundantly clear, I’d rather not have AI datacenters at all. But since the question was why water consumption is such a big deal, it might be best to say that it’s a physics problem: there isn’t any other readily-available way to provide cooling for 100+ megawatts, without building a 100+ meter tower. Water is always going to be cheaper and more on-hand than concrete.

    • degenerate_neutron_matter@fedia.io
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      5 hours ago

      if that facility used only evaporative cooling, the water requirement would be 144,927 L/hour. That is an Olympic-size swimming pool every 6.9 seconds. Not nice!

      You mean 6.9 hours? You’re definitely off by a few orders of magnitude there.

    • SorteKanin@feddit.dk
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      5 hours ago

      So is air cooling actually feasible but we don’t do it cause it would make data centers look like nuclear reactors? Or is it just not feasible?

  • WxFisch@lemmy.world
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    10 hours ago

    It evaporates, that’s how it cools. The water is sprayed over a heat exchanger and gets turned to essentially steam and then new water is pumped in and thus the water is “gone”. It will fall as rain somewhere but likely not near where it was taken from.

    A closed loop system could be used but they are more expensive and require more maintenance so large data centers don’t usually use them unless required to.

    • troybot@piefed.social
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      8 hours ago

      Ok so what you’re telling me is power plants generate electricity by burning fossil fuels which power a turbine with steam, then the data center uses all that electricity to produce even more steam?

    • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 hours ago

      I am still learning. Thank you for your educational comment.

      I loathe AI anyways, I just wanna better understand why I loathe AI…

      • qupada@fedia.io
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        9 hours ago

        Further to this, as well as the source of the water often being the local city’s drinking water supply (as we’ve found this puts a strain on that supply), evaporative cooling systems concentrate the minerals / contaminants in the water, meaning a smaller (relative to what is evaporated) of now highly-concentrated runoff water also has to be constantly disposed of. This likely is also going into the city’s wastewater systems.

        Radiators for closed-loop systems do also occupy more space (for the same cooling capacity) versus evaporative cooling towers, and are more limited in the range of climates they can be deployed in.

        On balance though, the closed-loop cooling should always be the first choice; if it works for the deployment it will never be the wrong choice on a long-term / total cost of ownership basis.

  • Rhaedas@fedia.io
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    8 hours ago

    The rate that water returns to aquifers it was drawn from is very slow. Rainfall from the evaporation is only the first step of a long process. So it’s not contamination, just being used up faster than is reasonable.

  • mushroommunk@lemmy.today
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    10 hours ago

    I can’t touch on all of them, but a lot of them do actually just make it disappear.

    A lot of the large data centers use evaporative cooling. The water basically boils off as vapor they just pump into the sky. This is cheaper in many places than the electricity needed for condenser cooling or other methods as it requires less electricity. (Which at the scale of these data centers they literally are unable to get enough electricity). That water vapor can drift off as clouds and come down somewhere, but no guarantee where or when.

    Some data centers also introduce more runoff of pollutants from their methane generators and such that can make the water unusable. If they do capture the vapor and reintroduce into the water table it isn’t always cooled down and the heat can cause major problems in the environment by raising temperatures. This can sometimes lead to the only thing surviving around the data centers being toxic algae or something.

    There are so many more ways they can be problematic. That’s just scratching the surface

    • Dave@lemmy.nz
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      7 hours ago

      Can this steam be used to turn turbines to make power? Or is it not hot enough to generate the required pressure?

      Surely it could at least be fed into a power station that now only needs half the fuel to get it up to temperature?

  • MorningWood@anarchist.nexus
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    9 hours ago

    The water is used to absorb heat and reject it outside. It will not be contaminate. It evaporates into the air which depletes local water supply. Could it come back? Sure. Can you guarantee it will? No.

    Agriculture by and large still uses the most water but in the year of our lord 2026 theres no reason to not be building closed loop data centers. Evaporative cooling is mostly done in places where water is cheaper than power. Its still grossly irresponsible but that doesnt matter if their arent laws on the books.

    • backalleycoyote@lemmy.today
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      8 hours ago

      Agriculture’s use has been eliminated. The farmers and ranchers who voted for this regime will be out of business by the time the data centers are up and running because ICE kidnapped all their laborers. The only jobs left will be guarding the centers from Antifa.

  • JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world
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    8 hours ago

    The other question is: why do they have to use potable water, as opoosed to, for example, filtered river water?

    • GenosseFlosse@feddit.org
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      8 hours ago

      Because you cannot dump infinite amounts of heated water into a river, it will kill the species living downstream if the river gets warmer than maybe 25 degrees.

      • JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        Could they not evaporate river water, instead of using drinking water?

        Edit: the volumes involved (from the other post) seem to indicate only the largest rivers could support the operation. Doesnt seem very viable at all. So lets just use up our valuable supplies of drinking water instead! /s

    • Fondots@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      Alright, so what do we do with that “slightly” (infact quite a bit) warmer water?

      Can’t just discharge it into a river. That hot water is gonna cause all kinds of havoc on the environment. Even if the temperature doesn’t outright kill things, warm water holds less oxygen so that’s going to harm fish, it’s probably gonna fuck up their spawning cycles because suddenly they have warm water in the middle of winter, it might cause algae blooms, etc.

      So we have to cool that water down. How are we gonna do that? We can spend even more money and energy to refrigerate it I suppose, but of course that would be stupid since these data centers are already using ridiculous amounts of energy.

      So most likely we’d just put it in some giant holding tanks and wait for it to cool off or maybe run it through a massive radiator to cool off. That’s even more land being taken up by these monstrosities, more maintenance needed, and at the end of the day, that’s still water sitting around somewhere besides in our aquifers and waterways where it’s needed, and we’re probably going to be losing even more to evaporation in the process.

      And while it’s being pumped around in those data centers, I’ll bet you it’s being run though all kinds of plastic pipes and such, maybe coming into contact with lead solder and such because these aren’t potable water systems, sounds like a great way to introduce more heavy metals and microplastics into the environment to me.

      And that 2% or so that’s being lost to evaporation? Some of these large data centers are using well in excess of a million gallons a day, so that’s 20,000 gallons a day lost to evaporation, so roughly every month you’re losing an entire Olympic sized swimming pool to evaporation. Again, that’s water that’s supposed to be in rivers and aquifers that’s now not.

      And what doesn’t evaporate? Well now any minerals, heavy metals, etc. that were in the water are now concentrated by that much. Hope your water treatment is prepared to handle that.

  • RamRabbit@lemmy.world
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    10 hours ago

    The water gets used over and over and over in the data center. It’s in a loop. The reporting that data centers consume vast quantities of water completely misunderstand the core concept of a water loop.

    That said, most data centers use the water for evaporative cooling. In that case, it comes back down as rain. But again, even in that case the reporting is still very overblown.

      • RamRabbit@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        From the video (timestamped):

        Even under the maximlist goals of AI companies, the projected increase of water use is small compared to what cities and industries already use.

        He even mentions how US corn uses 80x more water than worldwide AI use; with 40% of that corn burned as ethanol. And that power usage is the much larger concern.

        • calcopiritus@lemmy.world
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          7 hours ago

          Corn ethanol being stupid doesn’t make AI less stupid.

          There’s plenty of stupidity out there. That logic would make everything useless.

          By that logic, no one outside the US would care about voting, since they already reached peak stupidity, so voting for a better president in Argentina will not get rid of trump.

        • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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          9 hours ago

          I made a point to update my post, not only with your link, but also with your timestamped link.

          This is why I’m here, to ask questions and seek answers…

          • RamRabbit@lemmy.world
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            9 hours ago

            I appreciate it. <3

            Lots of other people are making solid points as well. Glad to see people engaging.

    • over_clox@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 hours ago

      So, similar to a vehicle radiator, just larger scale?

      Well, if that’s the case, yeah antifreeze isn’t good for anyone, but still a proper closed loop cooling system isn’t exactly wasting water is it?

      • disregardable@lemmy.zip
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        10 hours ago

        still a proper closed loop cooling system isn’t exactly wasting water is it?

        If you take good water from underground, it evaporates, and you’re in a drought-prone area, your area effectively just lost the water. Even if you’re not in a drought-prone area, you’re never going to have easy access to that clean, underground water again.

        https://arxiv.org/pdf/2304.03271

        I found this, and it has a cool overview of water towers and such.

    • Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world
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      8 hours ago

      Welcome to Lemmy. “AI bad” downvoting will always happen at anything that symbolizes sympathy, even when you’re just providing an objective factual take. Thanks for your informative post.