Pushing them as boogiemen has always been a self-owning take. Maybe they are adversaries but acting as reactionary as we do is counter productive, and just allows them to capitalize on our continual reputation loss.
They are a great power and a great civilization and we treat them like they are some third world tinpot tyrants. The world isnt buying our clown show anymore. There are clearly differences between them and the west that needs respectful discussion that we arent bothering to engage in with them.
If we want to exercise influence in that area but also globally-- instead of paddling around there like arrogant hick dipshits lets get on with diplomacy and be serious about it for a change.
Well yes, China does seem like the adult in the room compared to their own leadership so not at all surprising.
Its the comparison between frighteningly repressive but productive, and outright destructively, counterproductively sociopathic.
Neither are good, but one isn’t actively destroying the world, fucking literally everyone over, and complicit in a genocide and unjust war that seems for all the world to be carried out to protect several pedos.
Hopefully this whole shitshow will push people into renewables so hard that there’s no turning back.
This graph shows something interesting. The numbers held steady for a long time. Then the opinion started rapidly shifting during Trump’s first presidency as they ramped up anti-CHAYNA! propaganda. That continied under Biden and the opinion trend followed. But look what happens after 2023. Despite the anti-China propaganda taps being fully open, the opinion trend goes positive. To me this means the propaganda is stopping to work for increasing number of people.
Anecdotally I see this with people I talk to in RL (in Canada). People who used to be on the China-bad (like myself) train have gotten off it and see their previous opinions as shaped by propaganda. Far from universal but things are shifting.
To me this means the propaganda is stopping to work for increasing number of people.
I have different reading of the data. Essentially there are two superpowers today: USA and China. No one wants to be ruled by another country, but the dominant superpower has that power to shape policy around the world through military and economic actions.
What I’m seeing is that trump made the USA so unpalatable with his actions that China becomes the lesser of two evils. So its not so much that China’s bad behavior are erased, but given the choice of China or the USA leading the world, the world is rejecting the USA.
The world - for sure, but these are numbers for Americans.
I’m also apply the same logic to Americans. If a USA of the future is the trumpian-style, I’d rather have a strong China to act as a check on US power. We, the USA, are a negative force on the world right now under trump.
As an American, I’m pleased with China’s:
- Renewable energy adoption
- Electric vehicle progress
- Battery technology advancement
- Their willingness to subsidize shipping and other supply chain stuff so that I can order cheap parts and PCBs (Chinese citizens are paying for that in their taxes… Thanks!)
I’m disappointed and even appalled with China’s:
- Treatment of their own citizens (especially Uyghurs, people in Tibet)
- Endless bullshit regarding Taiwan (just leave them alone already!)
- Social credit system
- Installing secret back doors in electronic products
- Helping North Korea
- What they did in Hong Kong
- Allowing the same people to remain in charge for so long (that’s never a good idea)
- Lack of regulations (or enforcement) that protect their own people. Move to the 8 hour work day already! They need the equivalent of OSHA that actually does their job.
- Completely untrustworthy government when it comes to negotiating in good faith
The last two are the reasons why no one trusts China or many entire product categories if they originate in China. Example: Who TF is going to buy Chinese baby formula‽
In the US we have a saying, “cheap Chinese junk.” It’s often said after some cheap Chinese product fails, often spectacularly (e.g. emits smoke or catches fire). There’s so many examples of this in my own life it’s kind of unreal:
- Power supplies that have no moving parts yet fail completely within a year
- Plastic stuff that just breaks for no good reason (presumably because they didn’t add a UV stabilizer to the raw plastic? Just wild speculation on my part)
- Anything with metal parts will rust or degrade so fast you wonder how it even made it to America without self destructing.
I can go on and on about the poor quality of tons of Chinese-made products but you get the idea. Having said that, there’s plenty of great Chinese brands that make quality stuff. It’s just that there’s so much more cheap/generic stuff from China that competes with the good stuff it gets drowned out.
If I were in charge over there, the first thing I’d do is start real inspections of consumer goods. I mean, it shouldn’t even be possible for a company to ship a children’s product with lead in it! Mandatory inspections! Of everything. Also, if any of your inspectors are offered a bribe, give them a great big bonus for reporting it and make the person who tried to bribe them suffer. China ultimately executed the folks responsible for the baby formula thing… More of that! Show the world you’re serious about reliability and safety.
I’d go even further and hire foreigners to inspect Chinese products, right there in China. Give them the authority to shut down assembly lines when products start showing signs of contamination. Be as open and transparent as possible!
Of course, the social credit system needs to go. Government should not be rating their people. That’s just evil. Let the market do it with background checks and credit scores 🤣
(I admit that’s not great either, but it’s infinitely better than having the government do it)
My critique of China’s environmental policies will always be that it’s rooted in lessening the impact on the environment for human reasons first, never for the sake of the environment and the other life we share this planet with. It’s also one of my fundamental criticisms of ML theory itself; it still puts humans first. I get that we’re going to tend to default to that, but the amount of Western “leftists” willing to ignore the rape of the planet for human’s sake just to spite western methods disgusts me. Strip-mining for rare earth elements to make better batteries for solar power isn’t exactly a better trade off than burning coal, it just makes you feel better cus it sounds better. And let’s talk about the factory farms it takes to feed a billion people who’ve been moved out of subsistence farming and into a “middle class”.
Why are you bothered by China helping North Korea? Also same people being in power isnt inherently wrong until institutions work properly, which seems to be the case in China.
And market and credit card rating people is good but govt doing is bad? lol
The only part that I agree with is the same people in power point, although I think it is poorly phrased. I would restate it as “a country ruled by the same people for a long time tends to have drastic swings in quality of life when it becomes time for succession, or when those people loose their mental faculties”. This is not to say that I expect it to happen every time, but I am drawn to the dictators of the 1900s as examples since I am struggling to come up with one that survived to their third leader.
Can you say CPC is run by same people? they have clear succession method and they function according to whatever their party constitution says. Wasnt Xi himself held many small posts then rose to top? I wont call them dictator for the same reason, the President doesnt hold supreme power either
I will admit that I am not overly familiar with Chinese politics, but I would say that the current CCP does seem to be run rather well. If you could point me in the direction of information on the succession process that would be appreciated.
I wont call them dictator for the same reason, the President doesnt hold supreme power either
You have landed on the only systemic issue that I have with Chinese internal politics, I do not doubt that the president doesn’t hold supreme power, but the party does since opposition parties are banned. This in my mind would mean that the actual most powerful position to hold is that of chairman of the CCP, this means that irregardless of how the nation is governed, effectively it is entirely run by a small group of autocrats. The Chinese system seems to be very similar to the constitutional monarchies of the early modern period with the biggest difference being that the ruling class is not necessarily hereditary. All this is to say that I think the system is great so long as you hold similar ideals, I do not, which is why I personally don’t like it, but I cannot deny that it works.
West’s opinion of China is rooted in propaganda and a sense of superiority of the west having some kind of superior democratic system than China.
Literally your next post was:
I want communist govt to have complete ideological control. I do not want one bit of right wing thought in the name of freedom and in that regards china is doing great.
Do you even know who you are?
Whats your point exactly
I think the point they are trying to make is that the far-right is generally considered the autocratic part of the spectrum, so you are being hypocritical by saying I want an autocratic government to come in and ban all autocrats.
Then they are wrong, authority is not exclusive to right wing. Anarchy is only one part of leftist ideology
