Yeah, it’s not like false accusations can destroy lifes either.
And when someone is accused by 20 people of rape, instead of immediately thinking “these 20 people are greedy liars that are just preying on this poor, innocent celebrity”, you start wondering how you can get 20 people to go through the humiliation of declaring themselves victims of rape, which is seen as shameful (for some reason), without having done anything wrong.
20 accusers is a form of evidence in itself. For the sake of ‘evidenceless’ accusations, the discussion should be about single accusations with no context.
And according to your stance, if your mother tells you she’s been assaulted 30 years ago, your answer would be “Do you have proof? Why have you waited for so long? Is the perpetrator famous?”.
Now you’re setting up a strawman. Of course we believe family and those close to us. The discussion is about the system and how it works.
if you don’t believe the victims by default, then you believe the rapists by default
False analogy. It’s possible to have insufficient evidence for a decision. Especially in he-said-she-said situations
In the meantime, I’ll be waiting for you to prove you’re not a rapist.
I get what you’re saying but you are on the wrong side of this m. Rape cases in America are systematic dismissed buried lost corrupted or flat out ignored. It’s a serious epidemic and the amount of lives ruined by false accusations pales in comparison to the amount of victims that come forward and the amount of those who are too afraid to come forward.
Also you can always appeal your case. Victims have no recourse and now voice the majority of a time. It’s not even close to comparable. It’s almost like voter fraud with the amount of cases where someone has lied about being raped.
It’s a serious epidemic and the amount of lives ruined by false accusations pales in comparison to the amount of victims that come forward and the amount of those who are too afraid to come forward.
That’s a false dichotomy. Not believing accusations by default doesn’t mean we disbelieve them either, or discourage victims from reporting. It just means judgement needs to be withheld pending investigation.
Also you can always appeal your case.
Not how it works for rape accusations. You don’t have to be convicted to lose your job, friends, family. If you’re a victim of a false accusation, you’re as much a victim as any rape victim.
It’s not even close to comparable. It’s almost like voter fraud with the amount of cases where someone has lied about being raped.
Nobody’s claiming the numbers are similar. I’m pointing out the absurdity of defaulting to believing any accusation without evidence.
There is what you are talking about and then there is the reality of the sexual assault crisis in America. I understand what you are saying. But the reality of the situation is that people who step forward should be given the benefit of the doubt because of the evidence and history of sexual violence especially towards children and women being ignored in the United States and the absolute miscarriage of justice that is. The balance as it stands now is hardly any of rape or sexual misconduct allegations are taken seriously or even investigated.
Just look at our president and his history with abusing minors and adults basically all out in the open for decades. That is the state of justice with regards to sexual assault in the U.S.
There is not an epidemic of people losing their jobs or becoming social pariahs because of false rape claims. There is an epidemic of sexual violence against children and women and men in the United States. No one is convicted because someone just claims they have been assaulted.
Wow, rapist supporters always have this shitty “argument” that never works. Are you so scared of being accused of rape?
Anyways, this doesn’t work because there is a pretty big amount of reasons to not believe you here (duh). And in the case someone accused me seriously and credibly of rape, then yeah, I would expect people who don’t have evidence pointing one way or another to believe the victim. Sorry, you might be used to your sense of selfishness altering your moral beliefs but it doesn’t work here.
Also, even if I were a rapist as you said, it would not bear any weight in my argument that victims should be believed. If anything, if even rapists were saying that, it would just prove my point even more.
You’re just using the same pathetic attack that everyone who tries to defend rapists ends up using. Are you all brainwashed clones, or just one guy with a lot of fake accounts?
And nice link, but
There’s a big stretch between claiming on a case by case basis that justice has been miscarried, and making a flat out statement that
[…] victims shouldn’t be believed a priori. I guess your rules only apply on others, once again your moral stances seem to shift with the wind.
20 accusers is a form of evidence, but not 1 accuser? Then how many is evidence, two? Three? And according to your argument, evidence doesn’t matter since what matters is innocence until proof of guilt, which implies being judged and condemned. Unless you consider that you have the authority to decide who is guilty and who isn’t, and then your whole initial point doesn’t exist.
Of course you believe your family, but why? Because families never lie? No, it’s just that you respect your family and you understand that claiming to having been raped is a challenge on its own. Yet you consider that if a stranger does it, they’re lying unless they can prove it. That’s called being a self-centered jerk.
In the case of an opposition between two unbalanced sides, not deciding is siding with the more powerful side.
If you see a nazi in the street beating up a black guy, and you think “I’m not going to take a decision because maybe the black guy started the fight, I don’t have enough information to defend either side”, you’re not neutral, you’re a nazi supporter. Same if you hear a black guy say that he’s been beaten up by a nazi without proof of it, and you decide to stay “neutral”.
Once again, that’s a stance that is known to be wrong and to favour the oppressors.
I really need to just write a book that debunks the stupid pro-rapists arguments and send it to all of your group whenever you send a comment, I’m sick of having to write the same things every few months because you and your clones are so scared that someone would accuse you of rape or something. Always the same bullshit over and over, the “you are a rapist. Now prove that you’re not” sentence written almost word by word, all that crap that even a 10 years old would be able to debunk but that for some reason resonates in all the rapists defenders.
What goes through your mind, really? “But what if people say that I raped them”? Because I never felt threatened by that, but maybe that’s because I know that I never raped anyone.
Are you all brainwashed clones, or just one guy with a lot of fake accounts?
Yeah, it couldn’t possibly be because you’re spouting some insane views.
What goes through your mind, really? “But what if people say that I raped them”?
Some people believe in justice as an ideal, not justice because we might be subject to it. Granted you probably have to understand the concept of justice first.
Always the same bullshit over and over, the “you are a rapist. Now prove that you’re not” sentence written almost word by word
Again, I wonder why. It’s not as if it’s some huge glaring flaw in your argument that you’re just ignoring. You propose to give half the population the power to destroy the life of the other half with no checks and balances, and fail to see how it would be abused. You’re exactly the sort of idiot who ‘thinks of the children’.
It’s funny how you’re conveniently ignoring the things I say that make your points invalid.
But your strawman is already debunked by things I previously said.
What I’m proposing gives no one any “power” because I never proposed a change in the legal system. I said that people should believe the victims, and you’re transforming that (completely in good faith, I’m suuure) into “the legal system should condemn anyone who ever gets accused by anyone of rape”.
You’re showing more and more that you’re arguing in bad faith, your arguments are weaker and weaker (I mean, you didn’t even really have any in this message), so at this point it’s seeming like you’re just feeling personally attacked. So either you’re so brainwashed by some shithole like 4chan or whatever that you feel attacked by things that don’t concern you, or they do concern you. Either way, I’m not going to waste more time, you’ve shown enough of your cards for anyone to know who you are, I’m not going to inflict myself more of your presence.
You’re a rapist.
Onus is now on you to prove otherwise. Good thing negatives are so easy to prove.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cvgvjr78ndjo
Yeah, it’s not like false accusations can destroy lifes either.
20 accusers is a form of evidence in itself. For the sake of ‘evidenceless’ accusations, the discussion should be about single accusations with no context.
Now you’re setting up a strawman. Of course we believe family and those close to us. The discussion is about the system and how it works.
False analogy. It’s possible to have insufficient evidence for a decision. Especially in he-said-she-said situations
In the meantime, I’ll be waiting for you to prove you’re not a rapist.
I get what you’re saying but you are on the wrong side of this m. Rape cases in America are systematic dismissed buried lost corrupted or flat out ignored. It’s a serious epidemic and the amount of lives ruined by false accusations pales in comparison to the amount of victims that come forward and the amount of those who are too afraid to come forward.
Also you can always appeal your case. Victims have no recourse and now voice the majority of a time. It’s not even close to comparable. It’s almost like voter fraud with the amount of cases where someone has lied about being raped.
That’s a false dichotomy. Not believing accusations by default doesn’t mean we disbelieve them either, or discourage victims from reporting. It just means judgement needs to be withheld pending investigation.
Not how it works for rape accusations. You don’t have to be convicted to lose your job, friends, family. If you’re a victim of a false accusation, you’re as much a victim as any rape victim.
Nobody’s claiming the numbers are similar. I’m pointing out the absurdity of defaulting to believing any accusation without evidence.
There is what you are talking about and then there is the reality of the sexual assault crisis in America. I understand what you are saying. But the reality of the situation is that people who step forward should be given the benefit of the doubt because of the evidence and history of sexual violence especially towards children and women being ignored in the United States and the absolute miscarriage of justice that is. The balance as it stands now is hardly any of rape or sexual misconduct allegations are taken seriously or even investigated.
Just look at our president and his history with abusing minors and adults basically all out in the open for decades. That is the state of justice with regards to sexual assault in the U.S.
There is not an epidemic of people losing their jobs or becoming social pariahs because of false rape claims. There is an epidemic of sexual violence against children and women and men in the United States. No one is convicted because someone just claims they have been assaulted.
You’re a rapist.
Prove otherwise or go to jail.
Make it formal. File a complaint with the police and let them investigate me for my alleged rape of you dear internet stranger and see how that goes.
Oh wait, now you’re advocating for an investigation? I thought we just needed an accusation to be presumed guilty?
You seem stupid.
Thank you. I’d be worried if somebody making the suggestions you are thought I was smart.
Yeah because if you, as an individual, believe that someone is a rapist, they go to jail.
Genius.
You must be a second account of someone I debunked before, it’s not possible that you would just spit out the same exact shit.
Did you get banned and made a new account?
Wow, rapist supporters always have this shitty “argument” that never works. Are you so scared of being accused of rape?
Anyways, this doesn’t work because there is a pretty big amount of reasons to not believe you here (duh). And in the case someone accused me seriously and credibly of rape, then yeah, I would expect people who don’t have evidence pointing one way or another to believe the victim. Sorry, you might be used to your sense of selfishness altering your moral beliefs but it doesn’t work here.
Also, even if I were a rapist as you said, it would not bear any weight in my argument that victims should be believed. If anything, if even rapists were saying that, it would just prove my point even more.
You’re just using the same pathetic attack that everyone who tries to defend rapists ends up using. Are you all brainwashed clones, or just one guy with a lot of fake accounts?
And nice link, but
20 accusers is a form of evidence, but not 1 accuser? Then how many is evidence, two? Three? And according to your argument, evidence doesn’t matter since what matters is innocence until proof of guilt, which implies being judged and condemned. Unless you consider that you have the authority to decide who is guilty and who isn’t, and then your whole initial point doesn’t exist.
Of course you believe your family, but why? Because families never lie? No, it’s just that you respect your family and you understand that claiming to having been raped is a challenge on its own. Yet you consider that if a stranger does it, they’re lying unless they can prove it. That’s called being a self-centered jerk.
In the case of an opposition between two unbalanced sides, not deciding is siding with the more powerful side. If you see a nazi in the street beating up a black guy, and you think “I’m not going to take a decision because maybe the black guy started the fight, I don’t have enough information to defend either side”, you’re not neutral, you’re a nazi supporter. Same if you hear a black guy say that he’s been beaten up by a nazi without proof of it, and you decide to stay “neutral”. Once again, that’s a stance that is known to be wrong and to favour the oppressors.
I really need to just write a book that debunks the stupid pro-rapists arguments and send it to all of your group whenever you send a comment, I’m sick of having to write the same things every few months because you and your clones are so scared that someone would accuse you of rape or something. Always the same bullshit over and over, the “you are a rapist. Now prove that you’re not” sentence written almost word by word, all that crap that even a 10 years old would be able to debunk but that for some reason resonates in all the rapists defenders.
What goes through your mind, really? “But what if people say that I raped them”? Because I never felt threatened by that, but maybe that’s because I know that I never raped anyone.
Yeah, it couldn’t possibly be because you’re spouting some insane views.
Some people believe in justice as an ideal, not justice because we might be subject to it. Granted you probably have to understand the concept of justice first.
Again, I wonder why. It’s not as if it’s some huge glaring flaw in your argument that you’re just ignoring. You propose to give half the population the power to destroy the life of the other half with no checks and balances, and fail to see how it would be abused. You’re exactly the sort of idiot who ‘thinks of the children’.
It’s funny how you’re conveniently ignoring the things I say that make your points invalid.
But your strawman is already debunked by things I previously said.
What I’m proposing gives no one any “power” because I never proposed a change in the legal system. I said that people should believe the victims, and you’re transforming that (completely in good faith, I’m suuure) into “the legal system should condemn anyone who ever gets accused by anyone of rape”.
You’re showing more and more that you’re arguing in bad faith, your arguments are weaker and weaker (I mean, you didn’t even really have any in this message), so at this point it’s seeming like you’re just feeling personally attacked. So either you’re so brainwashed by some shithole like 4chan or whatever that you feel attacked by things that don’t concern you, or they do concern you. Either way, I’m not going to waste more time, you’ve shown enough of your cards for anyone to know who you are, I’m not going to inflict myself more of your presence.