4·
5 days agoWhy not?
Cowbee [he/they]
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Cake day: December 31st, 2023
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Economics still can be analyzed scientifically and from a materialist perspective. For example, Marxist economics.
Sure, but economics itself can be studied scientifically.
The study of human behavior is more difficult to measure, but can absolutely be held to scientific rigor. In fact, all branches of science have some degree of overlap and interconnection, and thus have blurrier lines than you might expect.
Why not?
NATO is bad, though. It’s the “defensive” alliance for the world’s imperialist powers, similar to how “Israel” “defends itself” with the IDF. It’s used to prevent the people of the global south from directly retaliating against imperialism.
The key issue here is that China isn’t a colonizing country. It’s not because I’m cherry-picking, it’s because it simply doesn’t fit into the category of colonialism or neocolonialism, or imperialism. I agree with you in saying that colonialism only serves to impoverish and destroy the lives of a large number of working people, that’s why when we analyze how BRI has lifted 40 million people out of poverty, thousands of infrastructure projects, and tens of billions in bilateral trade, this is delivering entirely different results from how the west treats the global south.
Secondly, I want to address the idea of “true communism.” Communism is not a mythological, holy form of being, it’s the process of bringing about the communist mode of production and distribution through socialism, the transition between capitalism and communism. It isn’t some religious or moral creed, but a material mode of production. Socialism in real life has warts, problems, and struggles, just like any existing system does, yet only countries building socialism seem to be held to this sense of religious purity by westerners.
Finally, regarding Lenin. Lenin’s calls for revolution against imperialism, colonialism, and the capitalist class to bring about socialism isn’t tyrannical at all, except from the perspective of imperialists, colonizers, and capitalists. Without class analysis, we ignore that the flipside is the existing tyranny of the imperialists, colonizers, and capitalists. Trading the dictatorship of the few over the many to the dictatorship of the many over the few who had absolute power in the prior system is the same way capitalism was brought about from feudalism, and is a natural human progression.
I talk about communism and socialism a lot. I care deeply about organizing for a better world, and I enjoy discussing it with others. That’s it.
No? Only 2 are from China, one is from the Philippines and the other is from a Statesian organization. All of my points are from the perspective of a Marxist-Leninist, and they’ll be similar to CPC stances as the CPC is Marxist-Leninist as well. I don’t see how I’m lacking in nuance, I clearly believe what I say and have no interest in lying or presenting a position I don’t feel has sufficient evidence just for “balance.” Your comment is projection because your accusations fit the west far more than they fit China, and that’s based on hard evidence.
You’re showing how Zenz’ estimations are baseless, and RationalWiki is wrong. Zenz invented numbers pulled from thin air from a tiny sample size. You aren’t highlighting how the Grayzone is wrong, you’re proving RationalWiki’s problem with statistics and estimation, and highlighting your own willingness to overlook critical flaws in data analysis just to serve your own right-wing political ends.
Secondly, the top result article for “Uyghur genocide” circles back to reports by Zenz for allegations of genocide, and people referencing Zenz. I can go on and on, the most credible report is the UN report that you refuse to look at, and China’s response to it thoroughly debunks or contextualizes everything brought up. The reason you should read the reports is so that you can understand what the actual allegations are, rather than listening to a far-right christofascist propagandist paid by the US government to discredit China and other left wing groups.
Uyghur population growth in Xinjiang exceeeds the average population growth in Xinjiang. Further, the “Xinjiang Police Files,” sourced by Zenz, contain entirely fabricated stories about the vast majority of the people in it (names redacted from the public release):
As for rationalwiki being liberal, they absolutley are. For example, they call Friedrich Engels the “dictator of writing” on their “notable communists” subsection of the communism page:
They also call every socialist leader a “dictator,” and include Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge an example of “communism.” These people are not serious, they are liberals that maintain the US government’s line on its enemies to a T. This goes well with your support of a literal CIA propagandist, Adrian Zenz.
I’ve moved no goalposts. You keep defending and dodging Zenz’ clear biases and proven track record of lying, manipulating data, and belief that China is the anti-christ. For example, Zenz showed a picture of elderly people recieving medical care at a clinic, and used it to boost his “forced sterilization” theory.
This is what Zenz writes:
Why on Earth do you complain about creationists as though they have nothing worthy to say, while simultaneously using a crank propagandist that believes homosexuality is a sin, and that the rapture is coming within decades?
He also downplays actual islamophobia:
RationalWiki tries to claim it is a fallacy to look at Zenz’ views and methodology, as “even the far-right can be correct.” However, this itself is a fallacy meant to stop the reader from seriously considering the validity of the information presented. If known liars and cranks that manipulate data are to be treated the same as scientific analysis, including when groups like the Arab League find no evidence of genocide, then you should certainly trust anti-imperialist reporting like from the Grayzone when it presents information clearly debunking RationalWiki and Adrian Zenz.
Edit: to respond to a few of your edits, you were homophobic by saying I am defending “daddy Xi,” using contextual societal shame towards gay relationships as a weapon against me discrediting far-right slander. As for your defense of the far-right, you’re defending a far-right CIA propagandist and a right-liberal opinion blog in wiki form.
Correct, RationalWiki is run by right-wing liberals. Read the article linked, the sources are cited on the article and you can check them yourself. For example, Zenz claimed to have interviewed 8 Uyghur people and deduced that millions must be incarcerated:
The source for this is just reading what Zenz and co posted themselves. The Grayzone is just highlighting clear problems with how Zenz gathers data.
As for sources on the Arab League visiting Xinjiang and finding no evidence of genocide, here’s Middle East Monitor reporting on it. I already linked this to you before, but this is an additional source just for fun. It’s really easy to find this online. As for pretty much all major allegations of genocide leading back to Zenz, here’s an example from BBC, which merely reports what Zenz says with little commentary.
Wierd bit of homophobia on your part at the end, but I can’t say I’m surprised by that behavior from you, given your defense of the far-right. You haven’t even looked at the reports, so there’s nothing here to argue yet, all we have found is that you believe far-right christofascist propagandist Adrian Zenz is infallible, and right-liberal RationalWiki is a reliable way to avoid engaging with a group that simply highlights Zenz’ background, methodology, and mistakes.
Your source “debunking” the Grayzone is RationalWiki, which is a right-wing misinformation justification wiki. Note how none of the arguments presented by the Grayzone against Zenz are tackled, just how the Grayzone reports.
Further, again, Zenz is misrepresenting the data. The only source on him not misrepresenting the data is himself. You further don’t actually tackle how he is misrepresenting the data, you’re just misrepresenting how Xinjiang now has higher access to birth control as “forced sterilization,” a claim that has no backing beyond Zenz’ own words.
Yes, Zenz isn’t the only one researching this! People like the Arab League went to Xinjiang and found no evidence of genocide. Instead, the groups that push the genocide narrative all circle back to Zenz, then reference each other. In this way, the narrative of genocide appears to have more legitimacy, despite all linking back to shoddy claims by an admitted professional propagandist.
I find it telling that you’ll only listen to a christofascist, not the UN, and not the PRC’s official response and evidence. It’s the christofascists that deflect from Palestinian genocide that you trust completely, not hard evidence nor even the most official allegations by the UN. Truth doesn’t seem to matter to you, what matters is that christofascist propagandists are trusted. This is Iraq’s supposed WMD and South Africa’s supposed “White Genocide” all over again.
I already debunked the forced sterilization narrative in this comment, all you’ve done is link more people circling back to Zenz’ deliberate falsification of data, along with chauvanistic claims that China wants Han supremacy. In fact, like all other ethnic minorities, Uyghurs were exempt from the One Child Policy, and all ethnic minorities have better representation at the NPC than the Han majority precisely to make sure the voices of ethnic minorities in China are not shut out.
You are defending a far-right professional propagandist that has been caught over and over manipulating data and falsifying information.
Zenz’ work has been thoroughly discredited, yet is supported by western media for its utility in fearmongering. An example is lying about 8.7% of new IUDs as 80%, to back up claims of “forced sterilization,” from this chart:
Zenz is a professional propagandist, known for manipulating or falsely representing data, and outright fabricating data to suit his needs. The US Empire spends billions on discrediting China through any means they can. Trusting Zenz and data that comes exclusively from Zenz is not a reliable measure. Further, the Arab League visited China, and found no evidence backing claims of genocide.
I must have had close to 50 tankies request that I say something about Palestine. Is that the only atrocity against Muslims that they care about? Do they condemn a wide range of rights violation anywhere, anytime they happen? I research western China’s ethnic minorities.
Instead of accusing others of the equivalent to creationism, why not instead question the actual christofascist you seem to have absolute faith in providing totally real evidence? Zenz claims he is on a mission from God to punish China. Instead, why not read the UN report as well as (especially) China’s response to it, which eclipses it in size and detail.These are the most relevant accusations and responses without delving into straight up fantasy like Adrian Zenz.
This is pure projection.
China is not debt trapping poor African nations. We can see that this isn’t the case when we can observe countries in BRI engaging in rapid development and industrializing, and this is confirmed by China forgiving tons of debt. The goal of China isn’t to make countries reliant on them, or to earn money from debt, it’s because China gains personally through mutual development. Here are some articles debunking the “debt trap” myth:
There are many more examples I can use. China isn’t doing this out of the goodness of their own heart, but because they stand to gain from mutual development. A more developed global south means China is less reliant on the US Empire as a customer, provides new avenues to facilitate trade, and creates more markets for customers. The west harvests the global south for cheap labor and resources, and we can see hard comparisons in data between BRI participants and those imperialized by the west to see fundamentally different results.
Equal opposition to all states just shoots yourself in the foot, though. Should we focus on dismantling Cuban and Palestinian statehood with equal measure to the US Empire? If your goal is anarchism, shouldn’t you be focused on the bigger obstacles to that goal?
The problem with your accusation is that it doesn’t hold water. Leftist instances are consistently more correct regarding political views. You can’t just say that Hexbear is wrong for having stances, you need to investigate the stances themselves.
1·2 years agoI mean, you definitely should read Marx. China is Socialist, guided by a Communist Party. It hasn’t reached Communism, and when they tried to jump to Communism under Mao and the later Gang of Four, they ran into massive issues because the Means of Production weren’t developed enough.
Marx maintains that the next Mode of Production emerges from the previous, dialectically. That doesn’t mean China needed to let Billionaires run rampant, doing whatever they want, it means that it was the correct gamble to heavily industrialize and interlock itself with the global economy while maintaining State Supremacy over Capital, focusing more than anything on developing the productive forces.
Like it or not, the USSR largely collapsed due to trying to stay isolated from the West, which legitimately led to dissatisfaction towards the lack of consumer goods. They had strong safety nets and all the necessities they needed, but lacked the fun toys (to simplify a multi-faceted issue, along with increased liberalization and betrayals from Gorbachev). The PRC watched this in real time, and didn’t want to repeat it.
In that manner, the PRC is Socialist. It maintains a Dictatorship of the Proletariat over Capital, Billionaires fear persecution, state ownership is high and growing, the Proletariat’s real purchasing power is growing. The bourgeoisie exists, but has been kept no larger than can be drowned in a bathtub, in terms of power relation to the CPC, so to speak.
There is risk of Capitalist roading, and the bourgeoisie wresting control from the CPC. This risk is real, and is dangerous, but it hasn’t happened yet. Wealth disparity is rising, so we must keep a careful eye on it.
The greatest analytical tool of a Marxist is Dialectical Materialism. When analyzing something, it isn’t sufficient to take a present-day snapshot, you must consider its history, its relations to other entities, its contradictions, and its trajectory. Engels was a Capitalist, was Marx hypocritical for keeping Engels as his closest friend and ally? No. Class reductionism is dogmatic, we must analyze correctly.
Still using the browser! Works just fine.